ZETALAMBMARY is a two-man show for people who appreciate what we feel are genres of music that have always been forced to fly under the radar. Wraith digs just about everything from indie rock to certain noise pieces, while Zen prefers to stick with melodic, epic-sounding metal and Russian folk music. But what the heck, if we dig it, we will promote it anyway!
The Dogs, as the band like to call themselves, are no newbies to the indie rock scene. Originally formed in 1997 in New Zealand by Dan Young and Val Hunting, the band has only recorded two full-length albums over a span of 14 years, an output much lesser than most other bands. But who is to say that they don't produce quality material? Way before the recording of their two full-length records, their unique sound from their early demos and strong live performances had attracted award winning producer Malcolm Welsford's attention; who immediately offered to produce their debut album, "Anschluss". Welsford teamed up with the Dogs again in recording their sophomore album, "In The Face Of Disagreement", at Infrasonic Sound Studios in Los Angeles, and also gave them the added bonus of a new member, Grammy nominated drummer AAron Rossi of Prong, Ministry and John 5 fame. We catch up with the Dogs via e-mail and find out how they are doing so far.
Zetalambmary: Good day Dogs! It has been 14 years since the band was formed, so how does it feel to finally have a sophomore album out?
Aaron Rossi:I'm excited for ID!! The new album rocks! Dan Young: Good, thanks. Tomas Henry:Alright, thanks. How are you? Val Hunting:Worth the wait for us and you guys.
Zetalambmary: The name of the new record sounds like it is about resisting an established order. Can y’all explain the meaning behind it?
Dan Young:When you buy the album, the artwork contains a short message we wrote which is a distinction of the meaning as we see it. Tomas Henry:For me, this is one of many songs I’ve written words for with difficult political and social views. On the first record it was the advertising industry’s insistence on creating cripples, either physically or mentally in the population. On this one I had all kinds of different thoughts, one of which is the way we are all full of opinions but spend most of our time yelling at the TV or computer rather than turning it off and getting on with the life outside our door as well as changing the world by the actions you show people how to be with each other. Val Hunting: We all come up against disagreement in our lives whether it be political, social, personal etc. We all have to prove who we are in the face of that. This record would not have happened if we let the “disagreement” win.
Zetalambmary: How did Malcolm Welsford learn about you guys? Do you all think he did a good job on the new record?
Aaron Rossi: Malcolm produced a great rock record for Indicator Dogs. He used to be a drummer, so we got along really well in the studio. Dan Young:Malcolm saw us play live and offered to produce some early works, which led to him doing our first record. We became close friends and he brought us all to LA for the second one. I think he nailed the production; he has a gift to feel and understand music spatially... and has a great ear. Tomas Henry:I think this is the best record Malcolm has ever produced for us, he’s our bro and is in the dog family now. He was the biggest supporter of me coming back to the band and never lost faith in what I was capable of doing once he heard the songs in pre-production with the wood chipper (AAron). Val Hunting: Malcolm saw that early on people didn’t get us and they tried to change us so he got involved. He knew that we were unique and it was best to let us be ourselves and evolve as artists. The music industry used to support artist development back in the day (unfortunately not so much now), and Malcolm understood that we needed that. I think this record speaks for itself in terms of the quality, both in the maturity of the music and also the production. I love our first record, but this is a whole new level.
Indicator Dogs - Zoo Keeper (8th track off "Anschluss")
Zetalambmary:This album smells so much of indie rock that if you guys go any more indie, hardcore indie rock aficionados will have to drill through kilometres of earth just to dig you all up. Why doesn’t Aaron’s industrial background from his Ministry days turn up in the songs of “In The Face Of Disagreement”?
Aaron Rossi:Ministry's music and style is night and day compared to Indicator Dogs. They're a band whose albums consist of mostly electronic elements and heavy vocals, whereas Indicator is a pure rock band with melodic singing. I suppose Indicator could add more electronic elements and samples, but that would just be weird. Dan Young:Hehe...I'm down with that. (know what I'm sayin'). Personally, if I was on "Who Wants To Be A Millionaire" and I was sitting at 500k and the final million dollar question was: "The band Indicator Dogs can best be described as; a) Heavy Rock; b) Alternative Rock; c) Indie rock; d) Progressive Rock?"... I would pass & walk away with the 500k as I have no idea how we should be classified! As to Aaron and Ministry ... Aaron is an artist and plays for the songs. Tomas Henry:Yeah, too close to the band to understand how to answer that too dude. I’ve heard it described as validly fitting into so many styles so, ahh! Sorry. Val Hunting: I agree with Dan and I think our fans are smart enough to listen to a wide array of genres and be able to discover us. This isn’t industrial music so AAron was able to play differently. That style of playing has its place and AAron does it better than anyone, but he was able to bring more drumming variety to our record because it is a different style to Ministry.
Zetalambmary: On the first record, “Anschluss”, you guys had a much rawer sound as compared to the more radio-friendly sound of the second record, “In The Face Of Disagreement”. Do you all think that you have grown mellow?
Aaron Rossi: I think the band matured musically; the second album is proof. Dan Young:Yes. I blame the fast cars and long lunches. This is definitely us in our best Sunday Threads. Seriously though, if you listen to both you will still hear the interesting time signatures & rhythms, but the second album is presented in a way to draw the listeners in. This album is more resolved, less conceptual. Tomas Henry: The other thing to remember is there are two different vocalists on the initial release. You can listen to the original record with just my vocals on it and it’s a different experience. I know that sounds like I’m a wanker and it’s almost certainly true, but because most people don’t realise that the record seems somehow too heavy when Christian (who stood in for me while I was in hospital) yelled and scream-sang, and I yelled, screamed and sang along together too. So with our voices combined, it’s a lot of information to try and take in. Val Hunting:I actually think that the music is heavier on this record, but the vocals are mellower.
Zetalambmary:The term “indie” can be a very difficult term to be used accurately. Certain “indie” rock bands like Death Cab For Cutie and Neon Trees have grown so famous that it is ironic how their fans still consider them “indie rock”. What are your views on this issue?
Aaron Rossi:I'm not familiar with these famous bands. I would think indie bands are bands on an independent record label. I've only heard the term "indie rock band", not "indie metal band", so it probably has to do with their style, not their status. To me, they're just rock bands. Dan Young:I think it’s fun discovering a band and playing it for your friends. As to my views about success, I'm all for earning a decent living, and less about the fame. Tomas Henry: Man, I just get up and do what I do and it’s the greatest thing in the world to make people have fun and feel their joy when you sing to them. I don’t think about some other fucker crying about his wealth and fucking houses; I just sing the songs and the company takes all my money. Val Hunting: With the current state of the industry, aren’t we all “indie” these days? I agree that it’s a difficult term to use accurately. I remember when “indie” rock was [made up of] bands like REM, U2, STP, Nirvana and they all became famous as well from underground activity. I think “indie” is a term that really means, “the-record-label-will-eventually-catch-on-if-enough-people-think-its-cool” and do something about it which makes them more famous. I think this is what has happened to indie bands over the years, they build their fan base independently and then they get support from labels or investors. It has nothing to do with the style of music that is played or how famous they eventually become.
Indicator Dogs - Summer Storm (5th track off "In The Face Of Disagreement")
Zetalambmary:Do you guys strive to be as successful as them someday?
Aaron Rossi: For sure! We wanna be famous like those bands you're talking about. Dan Young:Wednesday. Tomas Henry:Refer to answer above. Val Hunting: If you define success by money, then yes, Wednesday is good.
Zetalambmary:What are some of your all-time favourite records?
Aaron Rossi:Death - Symbolic. Rush - Exit Stage Left. Sublime - 40oz To Freedom. Slayer - Divine Intervention. Yanni - Live At The Acropolis. Maynard Ferguson - Live From San Francisco. Dan Young:PJ Harvey - Stories From The City, Stories From The Sea. Fugazi – Repeater. Fugazi - End Hits. Refused – The Shape Of Punk To Come: A Chimerical Bombination In 12 Bursts. Tomas Henry:The Cure - Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me. Beethoven’s 6th, 7th and 9th Symphonies. Sinatra’s Christmas record. Bad Brains – Rock For Light. Bad Brains – Quickness. Val Hunting:(Seriously, how much time do you have!) Fugazi – Repeater. Fugazi – 13 Songs. Kate Bush – The Dreaming. PJ Harvey – Dry. Kate Bush – The Dreaming. Kate Bush – Hounds Of Love. Mastodon – Crack the Skye. Mastodon – Blood Mountain. Vision Of Disorder – From Bliss To Devastation. Vision Of Disorder – Imprint. Skinlab – Bound, Gagged & Blindfolded. Girl Talk – All Day. Kronos Quartet – Phillip Glass String Quartets. Echo & the Bunnymen – Heaven Up Here… and about 50,000 more I didn’t mention.....
Zetalambmary: What about your influences and the musician each one of you admire the most?
Aaron Rossi:Jimi Hendrix. Dan Young:Abstract painting. Prince. Tomas Henry: David Turner, gut reaction and contemplation are wonderful places to create from. Handel. Val Hunting:Dan and Tom influence me as well as the art of creating unique harmonies; the less travelled musical path. Kate Bush.
Zetalambmary: Had the North American tour with Killing Joke still went on as originally planned, what would have been the first thing each one of you would say or do to Jaz Coleman when you all saw him?
Aaron Rossi:Hey Jaz!! Dan Young:Offer him one of Mama Rossi's cookies. Tomas Henry: Give him a hug and tell how bad we feel for his band then ask him about some quantum string theory I've been thinking about. Val Hunting:Tell him he could have Mama Rossi’s cookies but NOT the pumpkin or lemon slice.
Zetalambmary: Have you all ever thought of asking Dan to design a unique recording studio just for Indicator Dogs?
Aaron Rossi:Ya, we'll call it the Indicator Dog Pound. Dan Young:Haha! I’m pretty sure I slept through Acoustics theory at university... but I know Tom and Val would bounce ideas off me for their Mansions. Tomas Henry:Yes, and we have already talked at great length about such a thing. Val Hunting: Of course, he would ace it with German precision.
"In The Face Of Disagreement" was released on 24th May, 2011 through Rocket Science Ventures.
Every now and then you get a band that may not be massively popular like mainstream acts, but still popular enough to garner a huge following of heart-broken teenagers and wistful young adults across the globe. When I first encountered such a band in the form of Silverstein 6 years ago, my fate as a Silverstein diehard was sealed. The band became the essential soundtrack to my teenagehood. Amidst the plethora of punk rock, metalcore and hard rock bands that I was devouring back then, Silverstein was the flawless gem among a pile of uncut gems, the audio diary of a troubled me from a parallel world, and ultimately an entity that I could truly connect with and feel for.
And why wouldn’t any normal teenager feel this way? Afterall, these were just a bunch of ordinary guys from Toronto, Canada. As the start of the second millenium rolled in eleven years ago, the band was conceived, even when most of them had only just gotten out of high school; just like any other band everyday kids who were into punk rock, hardcore and emo would form. Of course, the one big difference was that Silverstein eventually managed to land a record deal with Chicago-based independent powerhouse, Victory Records. Frontman and vocalist Shane Told was reportedly said to have been working at a shop selling printer cartridges prior to receiving a call from Tony Brummel (owner of Victory) himself.
As with all first time signees, Shane was obviously elated to know that Silverstein was actually going somewhere then and no longer just a casual thing he and the rest of the gang did for fun, and look how far they have gone today. With the release of 2003’s critically acclaimed “When Broken Is Easily Fixed”, Silverstein quickly climbed in popularity in comparison to the rest of the Victory roster, selling more than 200, 000 copies in North America alone and earning their hit song “Smashed Into Pieces” a slot on the Victory Records Sampler of that era. Things have sailed smoothly for them since then, with the subsequent release of their landmark and sophomore album “Discovering The Waterfront”, which did even better than their debut and paved the way to a highly successful career ever since. It is also not very often you come across a band that has been in existence for 11 years so far that has the same line-up from 10 years ago. Most bands tend to change at least one or two members within a span of 2 to 3 years, some even the entire line-up a few albums later, but to have all 5 members for a decade?
“We don’t know how other bands work, and we’ve all only been in one band, so for us, you know, we just try to respect each other and we know kinda when to leave each other alone and when to talk about problems that we have, but for the most part, we are all pretty easy-going about things and we just kind of do it. I mean, yeah, it’s been good and we’ve all kind of been on the same level, we’ve all got the same goals. I think with the band, we’ve all agreed musically and where we want to go with things, and that is the best thing,” Shane says.
Halfway through the above response, Josh came into the changing room to retrieve something and jokingly tried to elbow one of his pals in the face, as if trying to show that they were really not that tight as a band. Flashing a cheeky grin after he was done, he exited the changing room. If there’s another thing I love to see in my favourite bands, it would be a sense of humour!
One remembers fondly of the early days when Shane’s screams and growls were still raw and his singing had a weak tone range (c. “Summer’s Stellar Gaze”, “When The Shadows Beam” and “When Broken Is Easily Fixed). The guitars back then just screamed of punk rock and hardcore as well, so it was definitely a real ear-opener for fans when they heard the highly polished metalcore-style single, “Vices”, from the band’s fourth full-length record (and first concept album), 2009’s “A Shipwreck In The Sand”. Never before had Silverstein sounded so heavy and intense. On 2011’s fifth album, “Rescue”, Shane had described its sound to be a crossover of “Discovering The Waterfront” and “A Shipwreck In The Sand”, a melding of the heartfelt ballad approach of the former and the brutal take from the latter; both of which are works of great musical maturity. But what about the lyrics? How much more mature have they become?
Shane pauses to ponder about the question for a brief moment before answering, “Yeah, it’s a good question, I’d say so. For instance, early on in our band’s career, I don’t think there were any sort of songs about politics or songs about, you know, the world and issues with that, and I think that as I have gotten older, those things have become more important to me. I think that’s one thing that’s sort of come out in our music a little bit, it’s making statements about certain sort of political issues in that, so I think definitely, in that sense, it has. Yeah.”
In case any of you reading this still doesn’t know, Silverstein are a bunch of guys who care a lot about animal welfare too. Music isn’t everything in their lives, and they are really zealous in their beliefs, being practising vegetarians/vegans since they were teenagers. They are strong supporters of the animal welfare website, Peta2.com, and according to their interview on that website, they have always found exploiting animals for food, fur and other products just not the right thing to do.
“Well, we are only both vegan [points at Billy Hamilton], and the rest of us are vegetarian, and I think if you asked each one of us, we’d give you a slightly different reason, further reasons [on why they turned vegetarian/vegan]. I’d say for me, I think you can live a healthy lifestyle, if not, a more healthy lifestyle than somebody who eats meat, without having to harm a [sentient] living thing. So that’s personally, for me, why I do it.“
By the way, Shane really fell down at the end of the music video.
Going back to Silverstein’s history, many music fans and critics have labeled Silverstein as one of the main pioneers of post-hardcore. So, had it really been the band’s intention to come up with such a crossover style right from the start?
“It was, absolutely. I think we came from a background where we had a lot of different influences, you know, and we had a lot of different styles of music that were popular in our hometown and it was very all over the place. It was everything from punk rock to hardcore to ska to emo and for us, I think we loved all those kinds of music equally and our whole intention was just to bring them together and fuse them together. I think that’s where we kind of got our sound and it’s great, you know, that worked out like that, so it’s a special thing.”
After hearing that, A Day To Remember just popped into my mind, and I promptly questioned Shane if they were really good friends since they seemed to be playing in a style quite similar to Silverstein’s.
“Yeah, and we know them really well. I guess I don’t know how much of an influence we were on them, but it’s interesting you know, and I think they are a little bit different ‘cos they are tuned down a little more lower and they kind of do a little more of the double-kick, breakdown thing, and we don’t do it as much, so I think we have different sort of takes but I think our influences are kind of the same.”
Having been on their debut label Victory Records for a good 7 years, one might at first think that Silverstein would feel a little regretful for leaving the label that groomed them to become what they are today. But surprise—it turns out that even these affable guys have gotten sick and tired of Tony Brummel’s overly-business approach to the art of recording music. Shane had mentioned in interviews on other websites that he was disillusioned with how Victory Records was run more like a corporation than an independent record label because “they are very driven on what’s gonna sell, how many copies of whatever they’re gonna sell, and a lot of times that held us [Silverstein] back from a lot of the things that we wanted to do.” (as extracted from AMP Magazine)
“No, absolutely no regrets. I mean, we did four albums with them and we had the best of times and there were the worst of times as they say, and you know, we just decided that we had some other options on where to go, like other labels and the business side, and Hopeless [Records] is a much better fit for us as a label,” Shane says with surety.
And about his own record label that was set up to help fellow Canadian bands, Verona Records? Well, Shane still does it on top of Silverstein. “I still do it, yeah,” Shane says. “And Counterparts was the last band on it and they are actually on Victory Records now. And I did some other great releases, and I continue to help out bands that are Canadian and stuff.”
Moving on to the million-dollar question, I asked Shane how he switches between his harsh vocals and clean singing so effortlessly, and how he ensures his voice is well taken care of. I must have been the millionth person to ask him that.
"A lot of people ask me that, and I don’t know, I just do it. I don’t have a lot of training, I haven’t taken all those lessons and stuff, I just kind of do the right thing. It’s something that I enjoy and I enjoy switching it up. It gives our band a lot of dynamics I think, between soft and heavy; and I like it."
“I drink a lot of water and I try to get a lot of sleep. Other than that, there’s no special remedies. It’s like some people say they don’t eat dairy or whatever, that messes them up. It doesn’t affect me, I mean as long as I’m drinking enough water and sleeping enough, I’m pretty good. Oh, if I get sick, that sucks too.”
As with many foreign bands whom are on their virgin visit to the little sunny island of Singapore, Silverstein were pretty excited about seeing some of the famous tourist spots. Bassist Billy Hamilton was so taken with the Merlion that halfway through the gig, he proclaimed that his next tattoo was going to be that of a Merlion, and that “that shit is cool, man.” Silverstein was also supposed to drop by a local radio station by the name of Power 98 for an interview in the morning of their first day in Singapore, but only Paul and Billy managed to turn up in the end as the other three were beat from the long flight the night before and resting up at their hotel room. This was especially understandable for Shane since he had to recuperate his voice from a soldout night at Taipei, Taiwan the day before. Since Shane wasn’t there while the deejays asked them what had they thought of Singapore before they arrived, I decided to pose the same question to him.
“Right, what I think of it? You know, it’s funny ‘cos I have a very good friend that I grew up with who was from Singapore, so he’d go over every summer and he’d always talk about how nice it was, so I always kind of pictured it how it is I guess. But then it’s funny what you hear about in the news, like the kid who spray painted the car and got caned—I’m sure you guys remember that ‘cos it was big news—and you know, you hear about the drug-smuggling and how they put people to death and stuff. So you hear that stuff, and I think you come here and you are a little bit scared that it’s gonna be really like everywhere you go there’s going to be police and stuff, but it’s really not. It’s like a lot more laidback than I thought, so I was thinking it was going to be a little more like uptight, but it’s actually pretty chill.” [ZLM]